Brenda Levin Gives Career Spanning Interview at ULI Luminaries Reception

Gail Goldberg  

One of the signature ULI things that I find a great opportunity for all of us in the community is when we get to hear from important people who have made a difference, to be inspired by them, to be inspired to make change, and care about things. So, I love the ULI Luminaries. The second reason is, I love Brenda Levin. I’m a fan girl. She's fabulous and wonderful and I'm excited for the opportunity for all of you to get to know Brenda a little better.… 

Brenda and I have known each other for about 25 years. I met David first, in San Diego, and I knew David for about a year before he brought Brenda to San Diego for us to meet. I have to say that while I lived in San Diego, I thought that Brenda was David's wife. But when I came to LA, I learned that actually David was Brenda Levin's husband.

In advance of tonight, Brenda and I had a little conversation. One of the things that we talked about is how lucky we both have been in our careers to come into contact with and to work with people who had an extraordinary sense of caring about the city. We call it the ‘power-of-one.’ People who cared enough about something, and who had dogged determination and made something happen. That seems sort of impossible to everybody else. So, one of the things that Brenda is going to do tonight is, as we talk about her career, introduce you to some of the folks that she has met along the way that exercise that ‘power-of-one,’ and made a real difference.

Brenda Levin  

Thank you, Gail. Hopefully, we'll have some fun, too…. Some of you have heard some of these stories, several will be new. Between Gail and I, we should have a good time. We always have a good time, though it usually includes a lot of wine. A lot of wine and good meals. 

Gail Goldberg  

Absolutely. First of all, a lot of us know something about her career, but what I don't know is how the hell does a Jersey girl end up as an architectural student at Harvard? I mean, come on. What were the sparks that led you to even think about being an architect?

Brenda Levin  

It wasn't linear. I'll tell you that. I grew up in New Jersey. I was born in 1946 so I'm 77 years old, if you want to do the math. I was always super artistic as a child and my first influence was a middle school teacher who encouraged me to get involved in the art scene in that particular school. To tell you the truth, I was following a very academic sister who is five years older than me, who is much smarter than me. I had to carve my own path because I wasn't going to compete with her. 

From that point, I went to college in graphic design, a painting major, at Carnegie Mellon, which was Carnegie Tech at the time. I remember staring into the lower level of the Arts building where the architecture department was and there were only two women in that department, and neither one of them graduated. I looked in and I said, I'm not ready. I just think it's too much of a challenge for me. So, I graduated in graphic design and had a career in graphic design. 

I moved to Boston in 1970 and everybody in Boston and Cambridge was in a graduate degree program of some kind. A friend of mine told me about the Boston Architectural Center. [It] was not a college, it was a night school. You could go there and be taught by practicing professionals while still having a job during the day. I continued to work in graphic design. I did that for two years to determine whether I had the interest and the talent to pursue a graduate degree in architecture. 

Fast forward, I applied to graduate school, I went to the Harvard Graduate School of Design for a master's degree in architecture. During that time I met David Abel, who decided that coming to Los Angeles would be a really brilliant idea. Not so much, in my opinion.

Gail Goldberg

I’m trying to imagine that conversation; I just got this fancy degree, I'm going to put it in my purse, I'm gonna hop in a car, and I'm gonna go with this cute guy to a city that he really cares about a lot. I want to know, how the hell did he convince you to do it?

Brenda Levin  

I thought, okay, we'll do this for two years and then we'll come back to Boston, which is familiar territory to me. What I think is really interesting for all of you who have been involved in projects in Los Angeles; In 1976, Los Angeles was not considered the architectural capital of the world that it is now. 

My classmates thought, “Why are you going to LA?” I mean, everybody stayed in the East Coast corridor; Boston, New York, Philadelphia… Nobody came to LA. Of course, it's totally different now. But in 1976, it was considered the architectural wasteland of America and here I was coming to it.

Gail Goldberg  

Tell me a little about your personal impressions of Los Angeles and how it compares. I'm really interested in the culture of cities and I think every city has a culture. What was so different about LA from where you came from in Boston and the New York area?

Brenda Levin  

When I was a kid, New York was my playground. I spent a lot of time in New York City and went to the Art Students League. I understood the city, it's on a grid; I could tell you where I was going, I could take transit… It was completely familiar to me. Boston is a little more challenging, but it's a city that honors its history and really understands the character of place. We all talk about placemaking, a lot. Boston was a great example of that. 

I had no identification or even orientation [in Los Angeles]. David and I lived in Westwood and I remember driving the 10 freeway, finally seeing snow covered mountains and I thought, oh, this is it. The city has long views. Forget what's in between the mountains, the beach, and the freeways. It's all about the long views. So, I finally had at least a frame of reference for Los Angeles. But, it was not a frame of reference of a familiar city to me and that took a very long time for me to understand. 

I came from two cities that honored both new construction and historic and I had that as a visual context of what I thought about cities. Clearly, Los Angeles didn't really meet that idea.

Gail Goldberg  

You talked a little about the East Coast and what they cared about, and that was clear to you. But what do you think Los Angeles, at that time, cared about?

Brenda Levin  

Again, this was all the way back in 1976. Clearly, it's different now. I had never been in a city that had been designed by freeways before. I had never been in a city where transport was the singular identifying element of the city. I clearly knew about the case study houses; I knew about Frank Lloyd Wright, I knew about [Rudolph M.] Schindler, Neutra etc. Other than that, in terms of architecture, there wasn't a lot that I had an identification for. 

My very first job was with John Lautner. You probably all know who John Lautner is; I did not. I had never heard his name on the East Coast. He was not an architect that I knew of. As a perfect transition to Los Angeles, his office was in Hollywood, next to the International Sex Boutique.

Gail Goldberg  

It's good to have the important stuff close by.

Brenda Levin  

So that was first, Hollywood Boulevard, John Lautner –whoever he is– and the International Sex Boutique. It was a pretty good introduction to Los Angeles. What's interesting about my experience at John's was, first of all, that I didn't know who he was, which was appalling to me once I did know who he was. He was a Frank Lloyd Wright protege and designed the most amazing single family homes. He always complained about not being considered for commercial or cultural projects. 

He hired me for $5 an hour to build a model of Bob Hope’s house in Palm Springs. There are enormously wonderful stories about that, the culmination of which was that we had this model and we needed to take it to the Hope’s house for their review. My parents were more impressed that I was going to the Hope’s house than that I had a Master’s degree from Harvard. They said, “Really, you're going to Bob Hope’s house? Tell him, hello.” 

John is a huge guy, I don't know whether you can picture him but if you shook his hand, it would totally embrace yours. So, we show up [to Bob Hope’s house], we go through the guard gate and bring the model in. We're sitting in the living room and Mrs. Hope comes down in her red caftan and she looks at John and says, “Would you like your regular martini, John?” This was 11 o'clock in the morning. Then she looks at me and she says, “Cranberry juice, dear?” I am 30 years old and I have a master's degree! I took the cranberry juice, anyway. 

While we were sitting there, part of the conversation referred to their two separate bedrooms–I don't think I'm revealing anything here–but it was a shock to me. Then we had to have a conversation about which way [Bob] wanted to face when he was sitting on his toilet. I said, this is not for me. I am not doing this. That really was fundamental in my decision not to do single family housing, certainly not single family housing for the Hollywood elite. I was enormously influenced by John's talent and craftsmanship and he and his staff taught me a lot, but I knew that that was not my career.

Gail Goldberg  

I personally know that you came into the whole thing with a bias against single family residential before you ever even met John. Tell them the real reason you hate single family housing.

Brenda Levin  

When I was a kid growing up in New Jersey, postwar, my dad owned a small real estate company. He worked seven days a week, which is what you did when you were selling single family tract homes. For me to spend time with my dad I would say, “On Sunday, when you're going to a tract, take me with you so that we can hang out together.” 

So, we walked these tracts and I loved when they were framed, not so much when they were enclosed. Whether that was deep in my brain or not, other than the opportunity to spend time with my dad, I remember that even when I was studying architecture, designing single family homes did not appeal to me -  except of course when I had the opportunity to design our own home. David was my client. For him to have the confidence to design and build our house in 1980, with very little architecture experience, and of that mostly focused on design as opposed to construction documents, was very brave of him.

Gail Goldberg  

Tell me how you left John Lautner? What did you say?

Brenda Levin  

I got laid off. I did bathroom remodels, kitchen remodels and whatever. Fast forward, David Abel is with the CORO foundation and they're moving their offices out of the Bradbury Building and moving into the Oviatt Building, a 1926 Art Deco building that, hopefully, you all know. He asked the new developer of that building whether it would be okay if I did a space plan for their offices. That developer was Wayne Ratkovich. You're going to hear a lot about Wayne tonight. He, obviously, was an incredible mentor, and patron for many years. That was the initial contact. He had just bought the Oviatt building as he was transitioning from being a broker at CBRE to starting his own development company.

Gail Goldberg  

You have worked on some of the most iconic historic projects in Los Angeles. When I first came to [the city] and went to work at City Hall, I swear to you for the first three months, every time I went into the elevator, I said, “Thank you, Brenda.” 

You have been involved in a lot of those landmarks, including the Oviatt, the Fine Arts, the Bradbury, the Wiltern theater, Chapman Market… These were all private development projects. Tell me a little about the people who were involved with these projects. 

Also, how did you [get these jobs]? I'm really curious as you didn't have a lot of historic preservation experience. I often quote to all my girlfriends a statistic that still blows me away when I say it: Statistically, men are willing to apply for a job as long as they have about 40% of the qualifications that are listed, whereas women like to have at least 90-95% before they will apply for a job.

Brenda Levin  

I had zero. There’s something to the fact that Wayne was starting out in his career, and I was starting out in my career, so maybe we both thought that we would grow and learn together. He bought the Oviatt Building for $400,000. This was probably his most successful project considering he sold it for 13 million to the Japanese. Regardless, he had bought the Oviatt Building because he could afford it, not because he knew anything about historic preservation or adaptive use. I also knew nothing about historic preservation or adaptive use, but here's the thing about being a woman in that field; no man wanted to take on a renovation/preservation project because most architects thought it was not significant enough, working in some other architects design, or that it had the ability to make the same statement as a new building might in the context of Los Angeles. 

Meanwhile, I came from New York and Boston, and I thought historic buildings were kind of cool. I understood their value in the context of the city, so I saw nothing that would indicate that, perhaps, this would not be one of many. I also thought it would be an amazing experience and, as it turned out, both Wayne and I became experts on a subject in a period of time when no one else wanted to be an expert. This was not due to competition, there was just nobody else who saw the opportunities. Luckily, there are many more of us now. 

I happened to be available, so we pursued it together. That then led to all of the other buildings that you mentioned, because Wayne went on, from the Oviatt Building, to the Fine Arts Building, to the Wiltern, to Chapman Markets… Then, we didn't work together again for probably 25 years until the Hughes Aircraft Company Hercules Campus. 

Your question leads to, why did [my work in historic preservation] continue beyond Wayne? It was because I was perceived as an expert. We as architects tend to get pigeonholed, good or bad. ‘I'm a lead designer. I'm a cultural asset designer. I'm a multifamily housing designer.’ Well, I got the mantle of historic preservation expert, whether I wanted it or not. I got the crown, and I got it before anybody else wanted it. 

Gail Goldberg

Crowns are good. That's a good place to be. There's never enough sparkle and every girl wants a tiara.

Brenda Levin  

Crowns are good, but I don’t remember getting any diamonds... But my first project was the Rex Ristorante, which was the former Alexander and Oviatt haberdashery. For anybody who's seen the film Pretty Woman, it’s the location where Julia Roberts tosses the escargot and the waiter catches it. That really was the first project that I worked on with Wayne. My fee was a set of Rex silverware, which I still have.

Gail Goldberg  

So, from there you went in a totally different direction.

Brenda Levin  

Because I was now known, wearing the crown, friends introduced me to Ira Yellin, the next developer in my portfolio, who had purchased the Bradbury Building and the Grand Central Market. He hired me to work with him on those two projects. I have now been working on Grand Central Market for 30 years.

Wayne was a true developer, Ira was a lawyer who gave up his law practice to become a developer. I always used to say that he wished he had become an architect instead. He was probably the most aesthetic person I've ever worked for, which is good and bad. Decisions were a little slow. He was a uniquely articulate man, who really believed that these two projects would address what he called the ‘rot of the center,’ he could really change the character of downtown Los Angeles. It took another 20 or 25 years before that was evidenced. He was totally passionate about what those two projects could do as anchors, particularly for Broadway.

Gail Goldberg  

Of course, he had a broader vision than just the projects, right? He cared deeply about the downtown space.

Brenda Levin  

Ira cared passionately about the city and the creation of opportunities for people to come together, people of all ethnicities, all socio-economic positions, to be in one place, particularly at Grand Central Market, to engage in social activity. He really believed that would transform the character of the civic identity in Los Angeles. It's very special.

Gail Goldberg  

When you talk about people who care, I think it's good to pause for a second. It's not the kind of care that we all have; we care about stuff, but what makes these people different is almost this sort of dogged determination. Their unwillingness to take no for an answer and to see a bigger picture. They have the ability to really make a significant change in the city. Ira, I think is a good example of somebody who saw his projects not just as a way to make money, but a way to change and to propel the downtown in a different direction. How is that for an architect who works for them? Is that an inspirational thing? Does it make you care more? What was it like to work for these two individuals?

Brenda Levin  

Ira was really unique in that he had a much broader vision for the city. Wayne [Ratkovich] was very articulate in telling a story to imagine something that does not yet exist. He was a visionary and he could spin a tale about what the project and the experience would be. 

If we look at Ira, he was much more indebted to the city of Los Angeles. He was born in LA, he believed in the city and he wanted to make it a better place. He believed in equity before Equity, Diversity and Inclusion were buzzwords. He absolutely believed in the ability to change things that other people didn't see. I think that working for him was a great gift and a great honor. He not only believed in that degree of change, but he also believed that design mattered. So, while he absolutely believed that he could transform Grand Central Market, maybe not into what it is today, but into something that would bring the community together and be an asset to a greater Los Angeles, he also cared about what every individual stall looked like. The challenge as an architect was to see the big vision and also the small vision, because we had to pay attention to both. He was an abiding inspiration.

Gail Goldberg  

Why don't we talk for a minute about this whole idea of the power of place. It was Winston Churchill who said, we shape our buildings; thereafter they shape us. Do you really believe that places and buildings change us and impact who we are?

Brenda Levin  

I guess if I didn't, I wouldn't be an architect. The people who built the iconic buildings you mentioned were not building them solely for their lifetime. For example, the Oviatt, the Wiltern, and others were built for future generations and the impact of those buildings would be, beyond their involvement in them. I think that inspiration transferred to both Ira and Wayne and probably many more. 

The two cities that I'd really lived in integrated historic and new construction very, very well. It never occurred to me that it would be something that LA, or any city, would not appreciate. I was really fortunate in finding those two people, and then many more going forward, who understood that their responsibility was beyond the money, beyond the building at that moment in time. They understood that future generations need to understand why those legacy buildings are important and what it is that we can learn from them. There are great stories in each one of those buildings. 

The Bradbury Building has incredible stories about the people who were involved in it. We all think about our legacy.… Lewis Bradbury was a silver miner who wanted to build a building as a monument to himself, but he couldn't just build any building. Instead, he built this incredible building that he knew was going to last for generations. What was it about his impetus to build that building and hire a very well-known architect and a not-well-known draftsman to design that building, all based on an inspiration from a Ouija board? It’s an unbelievable story, amongst many. 

So, when I think about historic preservation, I don't only think about the building, I think about the culture, I think about the people who were and are involved in the project. Lastly, I think about the legacy for future generations, whether we consider ourselves ancestors of our city. I think Wayne and Ira thought beyond the development project itself, to what this building meant to the City of Los Angeles.

Gail Goldberg  

You did a lot of work with educational institutions. Why are the places that we send our young people to be educated important? 

Brenda Levin  

I was fortunate, again, because we were well known by this point. After the first decade of the projects we've been talking about, we were hired by various colleges; Occidental College, Scripps College, Whittier College, Pitzer College, etc. Many of the projects either included a historic building in need of an addition or a new building designed in the character of the campus. Scripps College, for instance, is a national landmark campus. A Gordon Kaufmann arts building was perfectly sited, on access with the residence halls, to be expanded for a centralized dining facility.  They hired us to design a new building, a student center, that incorporated that one building and five additions. Whittier College wanted to add dining, student offices and a lounge. Renovating one building and adding two allowed us to create a new large lawn and courtyard. I think all of the buildings that we designed were for students, places where people gather, perform and learn. Each one of those campuses required our involving the students and alumni in decision making and each one of those campuses offered an opportunity to test different architectural concepts.… I think what was interesting, even though I was older, was that I wasn't that far removed from having gone to college and I understood those experiences that made for a community experience, and what the changes to that community meant to current students and alumni. 

An example: Scripps College was changing from dining in the residence halls to centralized dining as an economic decision. It was a decision that offended alumni because current students were not going to enjoy the same experiences that they had. So, Scripps College made an unbelievable decision; They sent me on a talking tour to alumni across the country, to share that what we were designing was at least familiar, an identity, and a memory of the experience of dining in the residence halls. I don't know very many public or private institutions that would invest in sending me around the country to present our design and our concept for that project. I do think college campuses are particularly sensitive to engaging with students to make spaces that create community.

Gail Goldberg  

I want to move on to some of the civic projects that you worked on. I've already mentioned that [LA] City Hall was beautiful and created this fabulous personal experience for me. It told me that government was important, in a way that the City Hall in San Diego never did. Talk a little about some of the civic projects that you've worked on.

Brenda Levin  

You all know, and maybe experienced, several of the downturns in the economy, where private development paused. For me, the transition economically was to civic projects where bond money or public monies made projects possible. Our portfolio changed dramatically. We can also thank the 94’ earthquake for [bringing forward the] need to preserve and repair some buildings, especially City Hall. 

For City Hall, we collaborated with AC Martin. Albert Martin was an incredible mentor to me. We happened to have offices in the same building at the time, the Fine Arts Building, and he was just a gem of a human being. City Hall had received FEMA money and other resources, but, as you well know, it had to be base isolated, which was a huge deal for a 32 story building. We were responsible for all the historic materials including the entire exterior envelope of the building. The terracotta was falling off the building, and you may remember nets being placed around the building on the 25th and 26th floor. What I remember was when the price came in at $293 million to restore and base isolate the building, there were serious conversations about tearing the building down. 

I was horrified by even the thought and I'm not even sure that the major political influences in the city were not considering demolition, including the mayor. Many of us fought back. This is an iconic building in LA. Built in 1928, it reflects the aspirations of the city in the first two decades of the 20th century. The tower image is on every LAPD  badge and the building is featured in innumerable movies. Until 1964, it was the tallest building in LA. It is more than a memory, more than an icon. It is the essence of Los Angeles throughout its history, and if we forget our history, if our kids and young people don't know our history, we're losing continuity and a sense of place. We're losing the evolution of the city over decades, and we're losing an identity that I think is so significant to what Los Angeles aspired to be in 1928 when they built City Hall. Whether it's met those aspirations, I think we can say it has, but at that point in time, it was a miracle of construction.

Gail Goldberg  

We all know I love City Hall, but there is another building that I love, and Adele (the singer) loves it too. Talk to us about the magnificent Observatory, which is just a wonder in Los Angeles.

Brenda Levin  

People often ask me what's my favorite project, which is always rather difficult, but I always say Griffith Observatory. Talk about the power-of-one. The power-of-one is Ed Krupp, the director of Griffith Observatory. He has been there for 40 years, coming as a graduate student from Pomona College. He is an amazing human being, a devoted public servant, and a committed person who cares more about Griffith Observatory than life itself, well, except for maybe the universe. 

We partnered with Pfeiffer Partners. It was an invited interview process. Phase one was a master plan which established the significance of the building and the original construction. It was one of those projects where there was such clarity of the vision and commitment to the preservation of the building. It is one of the most iconic buildings in Los Angeles. It can be seen from every direction on the 10 freeway. It is completely visible, 360 degrees. It was used to death as one of the major public venues in Los Angeles, free for anybody and everybody to come visit, whether to go inside, view the cosmos through the telescope, or whether you just walk around the perimeter to view Los Angeles. It is the one place, other than in an airplane, where you can understand the magnitude of the city of Los Angeles. Colonel Griffith had an experience looking through a telescope when he was a young adult and said that if every person could look through a telescope, they would understand the universe and they would understand where they belong in that universe. Those were always the guiding principles. Whatever we did, the building would continue to serve as an instrument, a building for observation. All decisions were evaluated against those goals and to ensure that there would be no significant change to the character of the building. 

How do you add 40,000 square feet to a building that is so iconic and so visible? If we had proposed an addition people would probably have protested. So, the addition is completely underground. The entire north lawn was excavated, the building was jacked up and a new exhibit space -the depths of space-  and a theater was added. The north lawn covering the addition was returned and the astronomers monument restored. There was not one decision that was made in that building that didn't flow through Ed Krupp. If he had not stayed, if he had not committed to 40 years of being a public servant, who was probably not extraordinarily well paid, that building could have had a completely different evolution. It was an incredible privilege to work with him and to work on that project.

Gail Goldberg  

I read an interview once that Ed Krupp did where he talked about your influence on him. It was an interesting discussion because he said, “I'm about the function of the building and the important thing is that it's gotta be dark. But Brenda said, ‘we need a little light.’” Why did you need the lights?

Brenda Levin  

I pressed it and it took a long time. I said, you arrive at this iconic building at night and the only thing that you can see are the front doors. That's the only element that's illuminated. Yet, there are building wings on both sides of the rotunda. Why aren’t they illuminated? He said, “Well, Brenda, it's the night sky, it's a dark environment, we have exhibits… There's no sense about looking out.” But, it wasn’t about looking out, it's about the arrival to the building. It's about what you perceive of the building when you come up the long road to the top of the mountain. So, let's figure out a way to illuminate those windows and preserve the exhibits behind them. On the nights where the lawn is covered with people and their telescopes, you can turn them off. 

If you look at pictures of Griffith Observatory now and try to imagine if those two wings were not illuminated, you would not perceive or appreciate the entire building, the copper domes, poured in place concrete façade and deco inspired bronze doors and grilles. Griffith Observatory was the vision of one man –Colonel Griffith, through his donation of the site and initial funds to build an observatory. Russell Porter, an amateur astronomer who designed the Palomar telescope influenced the design, and Austin and Ashley, were the building architects– but probably most important is Ed Krupp, steward of the Observatory and the guiding force of its renovation.

Gail Goldberg  

Ed said you were right. If any of you haven't watched the Adele concert, go find it. The music is magnificent, but the building is exquisite. It makes you want to say I've lived here.

Brenda Levin  

There are many films that use Griffith. Including The Terminator where our former governor emerged from the Observatory stark naked. Best of all is La La Land.

Gail Goldberg  

Let's get closer to the current time. You're working a lot now on arts and cultural buildings. You did my synagogue, the Ford amphitheater, Dodger Stadium, the Hercules campus and you're still working on Grand Central Market. Talk to us a little about why those are important to the city, to all of us.

Brenda Levin  

I've been very fortunate over the last decade. Wilshire Boulevard Temple is a 1929 historic synagogue, and it was falling into disrepair. It took a lot for the board of trustees to realize that it needed major renovation. When a piece of plaster fell from the dome, it was a wake-up call. It was probably one of the most significant historic preservation projects that we've ever done, where every surface was a historic material. How do you integrate infrastructure into a building; mechanical, electrical, plumbing, seismic retrofits, etc., when every surface is an important material? That is where, I think, we excelled, because we worked through each of those decisions. How do you incorporate a new mechanical system into a building that was designed to be ventilated through holes in the floor, by blocks of ice and fans in a plenum area below the seats? How do you design a building that is cooled but also quiet and contemplative?  All of these decisions are small details, but they're so important in preserving historic materials, murals and symbolic context.

On Dodger Stadium:

Brenda Levin

Dodger stadium is an anomaly for us. Janet Marie Smith, who is a baseball icon, guided the design of Camden Yards in Baltimore, Turner Field and Fenway Park. I had met her, through Wayne, when she was the executive director of the Pershing Square Management Association, one of the first of many times that Pershing Square has been redesigned. I had read about her, I knew the impact she was making at ballparks, but I didn't have any direct contact with her. Thirty years passed and I had heard that [Frank] McCourt had sold his interest in the Dodgers to Guggenheim Partners and that they hired Stan Kasten to be the president of the Dodgers. Janet had worked with Stan - he called her and said, “Come out, and we'll do something at Dodger Stadium.” 

Janet called me one day, “Oh, how are you?  Let's have coffee, Brenda.” That was it. I know nothing about baseball. Nothing, absolutely nothing. I love the Dodgers. I am a devoted fan now. But at the time, not so much. She said, “It doesn't matter, Brenda. We want to talk about the fan experience. We want to change the culture of Dodger Stadium -  increase circulation around the perimeter of the stadium, add concessions and facilities, provide opportunities for families, etc..  

And so over the period of the last 10 years, we've built 10 new buildings outside the envelope of the stadium. We challenged the original design, where you drove your car up to the same level as your seat, and you never circulated outside the stadium, you only circulated inside the concourses. So, we built plazas, concessions, fan experiences, restrooms, play areas for kids, shade structures, picnic areas and a new front entry gate… We did that over a period of 10 or 12 years now in various stages. The challenge is that you must build everything in the offseason. That's five or six months, depending on whether the team goes to the playoffs. That was amazing and challenging and just a fabulous opportunity for me. How do you design new buildings for Dodger Stadium that are reflective of a 1972 Stadium, the third oldest Stadium in America? When we talk about aspirations, the design of Dodger Stadium was aspirational. It was mid-century modern before we had a name for mid-century modern. It understood the aviation industry in California, and the development of the use of aluminum. There are unbelievably beautiful sight lines in the stadium, and views to the San Gabriel Mountains which needed to be preserved. 

The other thing that [Janet] did and we participated in was bring the history of the Dodgers back to Los Angeles. I think we can all walk around now and say it's almost like a living museum. There's the history of African American players, such as Jackie Robinson, there's Sandy Koufax, there's Fernando Valenzuela. Icons of the Dodgers are now represented in the stadium. Today, I spent the morning on the phone talking about some projects for the next offseason. Ownership continues to invest in the property, they continue to understand that they have 56,000 seats, and 56,000 fans. How can we make the experience better? Whether it's improving the food service, whether it's creating more restrooms, so women don't have to stand in line… Those are the goals and agenda for the team, for the ownership. And generally, Smith is really the guiding force of that. It's been an incredible privilege to work on the project. But more importantly, you never know where your next project is going to come from. It can often be a surprise.

Gail Goldberg  

I think we all recognize that Brenda has made an enormous contribution to our city, and [she’s] been honored a million times. You're a fellow of the American Institute of Architects, you've been given the highest awards that architects can give to one another, so we're going to skip that. You guys can go read the biography. Here's the one thing that's blowing me away, personally. The Getty Research Institute just accepted your portfolio, your archives. So I'm thinking to myself, I'm storing a hell of a lot of stuff in my little condo in San Diego. I called them up and I left a message and they have not called me back. Why? Maybe you can tell us? Why is your stuff so much more important than my stuff?

Tell me about that. I think that's a big deal, The Getty wanting all of your drawings, all of your work. I tried to explain to them that I did the Naval Training Center…

Brenda Levin  

Yes, it's an incredible privilege to have our archives at the Getty and I do think I ticked a lot of boxes. I'm a woman. I'm an architect. I'm a preservationist. And most of my work is focused in Los Angeles. The Getty is still trying to identify themselves as a Los Angeles institution, even though they are very much a global institution. I think that they had a gap in their collections from 1980 to 2020. Particularly with respect to Los Angeles, they care very much about what they call the erasure of history and so much of our work obviously fills that gap. They were particularly interested in our projects where we had historic documentation, original documents. We have a lot of original drawings of Griffith Observatory, Wilshire Boulevard Temple, all of them basically, and for the Getty to have those drawings, and our drawings of the renovation, expansion, whatever work that we did, I think they feel it does fill a missing link in their portfolio and collections. 

Gail Goldberg  

I'm going to ask a final complex question. Looking at Los Angeles now –we know about when you came here with the guy, the cute boy you met last week– but now you've been here a while. Tell us what your perception is. What have we accomplished? And where do we go or where do we need to go? 

Brenda Levin  

We're all the power-of-one. We're coming out at the precipice of the pandemic. My office is downtown, so I am experiencing downtown right now, which is not the greatest quite frankly. I just want to remember that there were initiatives that really impacted downtown, like the adaptive reuse ordinance, that fundamentally changed downtown. And I know they're planning to lower the threshold to 15 years, which will be terrific. 

You know, we all need to honor Wayne's legacy, we need to remember what he brought to the city and how he thought about Los Angeles. So, as ULI continues with TAPs and panels, we all need to think about how we encourage density, and how we do it in a productive way. 

One of my staff is on many commissions in Pasadena, including the Preservation and Planning Commission. She was explaining to me about the objective design standards that they are implementing in Pasadena, not guidelines, objective standards for high density housing. They will be reviewed by the planning department and will not go through public review or beyond the planning department. So, if a project meets the objective design standards, it goes through. As an example, they have not sacrificed efficiency, or density, with design. It's not an either or decision. It can't be an either or decision. When we drive around the city and we see buildings that are 300 feet long, block after block after block, with no articulation, with no sensitivity of pedestrian access… we're going to have a lot of ground floor commercial space that's never going to get filled. What are we going to do about it? What's an alternative? 

I think we really need to start thinking about it, and maybe planning needs to reinvest in urban design and put together a very strong group of people who are going to not eliminate review and not cause delays. We know developers like certainty, but we need to understand that if we're adding all this density, we’d like to do it in a way which understands the community's concerns, and in a way that develops projects that we're proud of. The city is evolving in a creative and important way. We need to get off the build it fast, build it by right, build it at any cost to the community path that we’re on. That's your job. I will participate, I promise. But that's your job. 

One of the lessons is advocacy and one of the wonderful legacies of the Los Angeles Conservancy is that they are strong in advocacy, they promoted historic preservation and helped people understand the value of historic preservation. It wasn't just fixing up single family residences. So, how in Los Angeles can we create an environment in which we build density in a conscientious way, but we don't kill what is valuable in the city? I don't believe that the trade off between being expedient and design is how we should continue to build our city.